<div dir="auto"><div><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Feb 18, 2017 4:03 PM, "Peter Dufault" <<a href="mailto:dufault@hda.com">dufault@hda.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div class="quoted-text"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><font face="Monaco" style="font-size:16px">On Feb 14, 2017, at 22:08 , Sebastian Huber <<a href="mailto:sebastian.huber@embedded-brains.de" target="_blank">sebastian.huber@embedded-<wbr>brains.de</a>> wrote:</font></div><font face="Monaco" style="font-size:16px"><br class="m_-1133963954846412046Apple-interchange-newline"></font><div><font face="Monaco" style="font-size:16px"><span style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">Looks like embedded PowerPC is going to die in GCC:</span><br style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">-------- Forwarded Message --------</span><br style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">Subject:<span class="m_-1133963954846412046Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="m_-1133963954846412046Apple-tab-span" style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px">      </span><span style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">Obsolete powerpc*-*-*spe*</span><br style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">Date:<span class="m_-1133963954846412046Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="m_-1133963954846412046Apple-tab-span" style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px">   </span><span style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">Mon, 13 Feb 2017 21:07:03 -0600</span><br style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">From:<span class="m_-1133963954846412046Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="m_-1133963954846412046Apple-tab-span" style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px">     </span><span style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">Segher Boessenkool <</span><a href="mailto:segher@kernel.crashing.org" style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">segher@kernel.crashing.org</a><span style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">></span><br style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">To:<span class="m_-1133963954846412046Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="m_-1133963954846412046Apple-tab-span" style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px">        </span><a href="mailto:gcc@gcc.gnu.org" style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">gcc@gcc.gnu.org</a><br style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">CC:<span class="m_-1133963954846412046Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="m_-1133963954846412046Apple-tab-span" style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px">       </span><a href="mailto:dje.gcc@gmail.com" style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">dje.gcc@gmail.com</a><br style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">Hi all,</span><br style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">I propose to mark powerpc*-*-*spe* as obsolete in GCC 7.  This includes</span><br style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">the spe.h installed header file, all the __builtin_spe* intrinsics, the</span><br style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">-mfloat-gprs= command-line option, and the support for the SPE ABIs.</span><br style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">No one has properly tested these targets in a long time (the latest</span><br style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">testresults I could find are from July 2015, >1000 failures), and the</span><br style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">SPE support makes a lot of code much more complex.</span><br style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">Any objections to this obsoletion?  GCC 7 will then be the last release</span><br style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">with support for SPE (it will need --enable-obsolete to build these</span><br style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">targets), and we will delete the SPE support during GCC 8 development.</span><br style="font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"></font></div></blockquote></div><div><font face="Monaco" style="font-size:16px"><br></font></div></div><font face="Monaco" style="font-size:16px"><font>I’ve been traveling and just noticed this.  </font>I use this target in three applications with RTEMS.</font><div><ul><li><font face="Monaco" style="font-size:16px">Who else in the RTEMS community is using this?</font></li><li><font face="Monaco" style="font-size:16px">The spe.h header file has been hopelessly broken forever, that’s not an issue.</font></li><li><font face="Monaco" style="font-size:16px">I build and use the “libdsp2” library for SPE. This is primarily assembler and I hope the assembler support for SPE is not affected, but I‘m not sure.</font></li><li><font face="Monaco" style="font-size:16px">I assume the major issue will be the removal of support for -mfloat-gprs and SPE ABIs.</font></li><li><span style="font-size:16px"><font face="Monaco">Can someone with GCC knowledge comment about the </font><font face="Monaco">possibility of pared-back support?  I’m guessing little or no hope based on the comment that “SPE support makes a lot of code much more complex” and SPE support with the ABI would be needed to use the DSP library and single precision floating point with the -mfloat-gprs registers.</font></span></li></ul><div><font face="Monaco" style="font-size:16px">I think this is going to put those applications into maintenance mode and make that target inappropriate for new RTEMS applications.</font></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It is clear from the thread on the GCC mailing list that no one has stepped up to maintain this support for a LONG time. The support will be in GCC 7 but maybe not in 8.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">There are a few options:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">+ Find someone to maintain it in GCC. Looks unlikely based on the thread.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">+ Do as you suggest and freeze the tools for that target. The way it looks for GCC, this would likely correspond to RTEMS 4.12.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">+ I am not sure if this is worth considering but we could have a special PowerPC/SPE toolchain where we freeze it on the last GCC version with spe support </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I am not that familiar with using SPE in applications so would this automatically obsolete some CPU models and BSPs when GCC drops support? Assuming we don't figure out how to freeze a toolchain.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Just considering options ranging from obsoleting things to freezing things. I just do the know the impact. </div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><font face="Monaco" style="font-size:16px"><br></font></div><div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><span class="m_-1133963954846412046Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:separate;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal;border-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span class="m_-1133963954846412046Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px;font-size:16px"><font face="Monaco"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Peter<br>-----------------<br>Peter Dufault<br>HD Associates, Inc.      Software and System Engineering</div><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><br></div>This email, like most email, is delivered unencrypted via internet email protocols subject to interception and tampering.  Contact HDA to discuss methods we can use that ensure secure communication.</font></span></div></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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