How will user's compile with Makefiles? Was: Re: large bss size for sample applications

Sat Sep 26 21:11:29 UTC 2015

I think there should be a requirement that you can deploy an RTEMS release at a site strictly using Makefiles.  Not develop RTEMS or build RTEMS, but deploy RTEMS.

I would prefer, but won’t go so far as to say it is a requirement, that one should be able rebuild a deployed BSP with changes via Makefiles.

The barriers to using RTEMS in a subsystem at a company not committed to RTEMS must be kept as low as possible, and the additional work to someone suggesting RTEMS (me) must be kept as low as possible.

> On Sep 26, 2015, at 11:13 , Joel Sherrill <Joel.Sherrill at oarcorp.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On September 26, 2015 9:52:37 AM CDT, "Thomas Dörfler" <Thomas.Doerfler at embedded-brains.de> wrote:
>> Peter's statement gets a +1 for me. Makefile integration IMHO makes
>> using RTEMS in many development systems rather easy. Forcing Waf for
>> user development is a drawback. 
>> 
>> 
>> How can we avoid this?
>> 
> 
> There are two pieces here.
> 
> + a file with the list of tools, flags, etc.
> + the existing application Makefile structure.
> 
> The application Makefile infrastructure is so old it predates automake. Long ago, I had a shell script called automake to generate them. This is before even releases on tape were shipped. Yes, pre-ftp.
> 
> The first piece captures basic information required to integrate into any big system.
> 
> The second is obsoleting an application Makefile system that has been present since before RTEMS was on ftp. I have no idea how widely it is used. But we don't have a formal decision on it that has been through user community review. I think all the core developers wouldn't mind removing it but we have no idea of the impact. 
> 
> If there is a high impact, we may be able to capture it as something not used inside RTEMS but as a kit for users. It rarely changes and depends on the first piece which I think we still need to publish with a BSP.
> 
> A hard requirement is that we can't force a build system on users. We can provide guidance for popular options we may not personally use but that's about it. Instructions for Eclipse or Visual Studio integration for example.
> 
>> Wkr Thomas. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
>> Von: Peter Dufault <dufault at hda.com> 
>> Datum: 
>> An: Gedare Bloom <gedare at rtems.org> 
>> Cc: Amar Takhar <verm at darkbeer.org>,"rtems-devel at rtems.org"
>> <devel at rtems.org> 
>> Betreff: Re: How will user's compile with Makefiles? Was: Re: large bss
>> size for sample applications 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I don’t like this requirement.  I think it’s fine for development but
>> want to be able to deliver a package that will integrate into a
>> client’s Makefile based build system where they can make changes and
>> re-build.  In other words, I don’t mind if building a BSP or updating
>> RTEMS requires waf, but want to be able to deploy and make minor
>> changes without it.
>> 
>> Up to now I’ve been able to get the existing Makefile fragments to work
>> at multiple sites with a little work.
>> 
>>> On Sep 26, 2015, at 09:04 , Gedare Bloom <gedare at rtems.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The comment below, made in the users ml, caught me off guard. How
>> will
>>> user's applications build when RTEMS is built with Waf?
>>> 
>>> If there is a complex answer, then this conversation belongs here on
>>> the devel ml until we can sort it out.
>>> 
>>> Gedare
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 2:36 AM, Chris Johns <chrisj at rtems.org>
>> wrote:
>>>> On 25/09/2015 11:04 pm, Jeff Webb wrote:
>>>>> On 09/25/2015 07:59 AM, Gedare Bloom wrote:
>>>>>>> The next task for me will be to set up a simple out-of tree C or
>> C++
>>>>>>> POSIX
>>>>>>> application.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks again for all the help!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -Jeff
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Simple examples for out-of-tree builds exist in the
>> examples-v2.git
>>>>>> repository with the "RTEMS Application Makefile" approach using
>> custom
>>>>>> Makefiles, and with the "RTEMS Application Waf" approach using
>>>>>> wscripts and a git-submodule for waf support. The former is an
>> older,
>>>>>> established way to build applications linking to an 'installed'
>> RTEMS,
>>>>>> and the latter is a newer way to do it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Perfect!  This is just what I need.  Thanks for the pointer.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> The Makefile approach will not be supported with the waf build of
>> RTEMS
>>>> when it lands.
>>>> 
>>>> Chris
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> users mailing list
>>>> users at rtems.org
>>>> http://lists.rtems.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> devel mailing list
>>> devel at rtems.org
>>> http://lists.rtems.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
>> 
>> Peter
>> -----------------
>> Peter Dufault
>> HD Associates, Inc.      Software and System Engineering
>> 
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>> http://lists.rtems.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
> 
> --joel

Peter
-----------------
Peter Dufault
HD Associates, Inc.      Software and System Engineering

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