How will user's compile with Makefiles? Was: Re: large bss size for sample applications

[Joel Sherrill]

On September 26, 2015 9:52:37 AM CDT, "Thomas Dörfler" <Thomas.Doerfler at embedded-brains.de> wrote:
>Peter's statement gets a +1 for me. Makefile integration IMHO makes
>using RTEMS in many development systems rather easy. Forcing Waf for
>user development is a drawback. 
>
>
>How can we avoid this?
>

There are two pieces here.

+ a file with the list of tools, flags, etc.
+ the existing application Makefile structure.

The application Makefile infrastructure is so old it predates automake. Long ago, I had a shell script called automake to generate them. This is before even releases on tape were shipped. Yes, pre-ftp.

The first piece captures basic information required to integrate into any big system.

The second is obsoleting an application Makefile system that has been present since before RTEMS was on ftp. I have no idea how widely it is used. But we don't have a formal decision on it that has been through user community review. I think all the core developers wouldn't mind removing it but we have no idea of the impact. 

If there is a high impact, we may be able to capture it as something not used inside RTEMS but as a kit for users. It rarely changes and depends on the first piece which I think we still need to publish with a BSP.

A hard requirement is that we can't force a build system on users. We can provide guidance for popular options we may not personally use but that's about it. Instructions for Eclipse or Visual Studio integration for example.

>Wkr Thomas. 
>
>
>
>
>-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
>Von: Peter Dufault <dufault at hda.com> 
>Datum: 
>An: Gedare Bloom <gedare at rtems.org> 
>Cc: Amar Takhar <verm at darkbeer.org>,"rtems-devel at rtems.org"
><devel at rtems.org> 
>Betreff: Re: How will user's compile with Makefiles? Was: Re: large bss
>size for sample applications 
>
>
>
>I don’t like this requirement.  I think it’s fine for development but
>want to be able to deliver a package that will integrate into a
>client’s Makefile based build system where they can make changes and
>re-build.  In other words, I don’t mind if building a BSP or updating
>RTEMS requires waf, but want to be able to deploy and make minor
>changes without it.
>
>Up to now I’ve been able to get the existing Makefile fragments to work
>at multiple sites with a little work.
>
>> On Sep 26, 2015, at 09:04 , Gedare Bloom <gedare at rtems.org> wrote:
>> 
>> The comment below, made in the users ml, caught me off guard. How
>will
>> user's applications build when RTEMS is built with Waf?
>> 
>> If there is a complex answer, then this conversation belongs here on
>> the devel ml until we can sort it out.
>> 
>> Gedare
>> 
>> On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 2:36 AM, Chris Johns <chrisj at rtems.org>
>wrote:
>>> On 25/09/2015 11:04 pm, Jeff Webb wrote:
>>>> On 09/25/2015 07:59 AM, Gedare Bloom wrote:
>>>>>> The next task for me will be to set up a simple out-of tree C or
>C++
>>>>>> POSIX
>>>>>> application.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks again for all the help!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -Jeff
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Simple examples for out-of-tree builds exist in the
>examples-v2.git
>>>>> repository with the "RTEMS Application Makefile" approach using
>custom
>>>>> Makefiles, and with the "RTEMS Application Waf" approach using
>>>>> wscripts and a git-submodule for waf support. The former is an
>older,
>>>>> established way to build applications linking to an 'installed'
>RTEMS,
>>>>> and the latter is a newer way to do it.
>>>> 
>>>> Perfect!  This is just what I need.  Thanks for the pointer.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Makefile approach will not be supported with the waf build of
>RTEMS
>>> when it lands.
>>> 
>>> Chris
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> users mailing list
>>> users at rtems.org
>>> http://lists.rtems.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>> _______________________________________________
>> devel mailing list
>> devel at rtems.org
>> http://lists.rtems.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
>
>Peter
>-----------------
>Peter Dufault
>HD Associates, Inc.      Software and System Engineering
>
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--joel