#4328: New APIs added to POSIX Standard (2021)
Eshan Dhawan
eshandhawan51 at gmail.com
Thu Apr 1 15:02:34 UTC 2021
Hi Matt,
Glibc can’t be used due to license compatibility issues although you can see there code for examples
I have a list of all the sources that you can use
The sources Joel gave handed me
Where you can find potential candidates for porting methods
(I will send the list when I reach home around midnight IST )
In those you can look for methods by greping :)
Thank
- Eshan
> On 01-Apr-2021, at 7:38 PM, Matthew Joyce <mfjoyce2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dr. Gedare,
>
> Thanks for the info! Ok, I'll make sure to take out the glibc material.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Matt
>
>> On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 3:06 PM Gedare Bloom <gedare at rtems.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 6:21 AM Matthew Joyce <mfjoyce2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Dr. Joel and Dr. Gedare,
>>>
>>> I posted my draft proposal on the GSOC 2021 page
>>> (https://devel.rtems.org/wiki/GSoC/2021). At your convenience, I would
>>> be very grateful for any comments or additional guidance you might
>>> have. Please note, I found implementations of some of the "clock"
>>> methods on glibc...does the GNU "Lesser General Public License" meet
>>> the intent for what RTEMS can use?
>>>
>> No. LGPL has a 'relinking' requirement that is not compatible.
>>
>>> Also, regarding the spawn.h group of methods, do I understand
>>> correctly that they've been deliberately left out? If so, I'm curious
>>> if there is anything that would still need to be done there. I noticed
>>> in the docs that some methods relating to new processes are supported
>>> in an adapted fashion (such as getpid()). Just wondering if there has
>>> been discussion on this for spawn so I can cover the bases.
>>>
>> RTEMS provides conceptually a single-process, multi-threaded, single
>> address space. So, any POSIX APIs that relate to multiple process
>> management tend to be unsupportable or meaningless. Spawn falls in the
>> same category as fork, it doesn't make sense to create a child process
>> in a single-process environment.
>>
>>> Thank you very much for your time!
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 2:18 PM Joel Sherrill <joel at rtems.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 7:14 AM Matthew Joyce <mfjoyce2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Dr. Joel,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks very much, that's a big help! Correct, I've been updating the
>>>>> spreadsheet as I go along. Ok, now I see that strlcat/strlcpy are used
>>>>> in rtems/cpukit and implemented in Newlib.
>>>>>
>>>>> One additional question, please: I haven't yet looked into the source
>>>>> of NetBSD or FreeBSD, but I do see that Newlib already implements
>>>>> ppoll (poll.cc), dladdr (dlfcn.cc), pselect (select.cc), and
>>>>> sockatmark (net.cc). None of them are defined in the rtems environment
>>>>> yet. Is there any reason why the NetBSD/FreeBSD version would be
>>>>> preferable to Newlib for these? Or is it just a matter of testing
>>>>> what's out there to find what works well in the rtems environment?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Without looking at the newlib git repo, I can tell you that the files
>>>> you cite are the implementation of those methods for Cygwin. Just
>>>> because they are in C++. :)
>>>>
>>>> The parts of the newlib repo RTEMS uses are under the newlib/
>>>> subdirectory not the cygwin one. Within that, there is a libc/sys and
>>>> only libc/sys/rtems is used for RTEMS. The others are for different
>>>> operating systems. There are a few places with "machine" directory
>>>> structures. Only the ones for the architecture you are building for
>>>> is used.
>>>>
>>>> As to why NetBSD for libdl, that is because portions of the code
>>>> originated there.
>>>>
>>>> And rtems-libbsd is based on FreeBSD. It is as close to the FreeBSD
>>>> source as we can keep it.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In my proposal I'll take your advice and work on some of the easier
>>>>> ones first in order to get the experience and process down.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There are tickets for a lot of methods. The rtems-docs repo has the
>>>> csv file (e.g. spreadsheet) which tracks RTEMS support against
>>>> various standards. The RTEMS POSIX Compliance Guide is generated
>>>> from that csv file. Between those, you can find other methods to ask
>>>> about. In general, if it is required by the Software Communications
>>>> Architecture (SCA) or FACE Technical Standard, then it is a method
>>>> someone expected to possibly be used in an embedded system.
>>>> SCA is a set of POSIX profiles focused on software defined radios and
>>>> the FACE Technical Standard was developed with avionics in mind.
>>>>
>>>> But any are fair game if they are actually implementable. I don;t think
>>>> the Compliance Guide says it yet, but we decided last year that
>>>> wordexp() is likely not supportable on RTEMS. The newlib
>>>> implementation assumes the presence of a shell with wildcard expansion
>>>> and ability to fork a process.
>>>>
>>>> --joel
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you again for your time!
>>>>>
>>>>> Matt
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 5:03 PM Joel Sherrill <joel at rtems.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow! Good work. There is a lot to digest here. Comments interspersed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I assume the spreadsheet is updated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 7:38 AM Matthew Joyce <mfjoyce2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Dr. Joel,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've gone over the list a few times now and see a few categories shaping up:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1) Already done (In Newlib source, defined in libc.a):
>>>>>>> a) reallocarray
>>>>>>> b) qsort_r
>>>>>>> c) memmem
>>>>>>> d) strlcat / strlcpy
>>>>>>> d) wcslcat / wcslcpy
>>>>>>> *Out of this group, strlcat and strlcpy also show up in
>>>>>>> src/rtems/cpukit. Why is that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The good news is that we support these. :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It looks to me that strlcat and strlcpy are used in cpukit but not implemented
>>>>>> there. Where do you think they are implemented.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a good example where a source code browser is helpful. grep can
>>>>>> often answer the question but a source code browser can be easier. Personally,
>>>>>> I use cscope but that is exceedingly old school. Any modern IDE should be
>>>>>> helpful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2) Not done yet (Do not show up in Newlib source or RTEMS):
>>>>>>> a) getlocalename_l
>>>>>>> b) posix_getdents
>>>>>>> c) sem_clockwait
>>>>>>> d) sig2str / str2sig
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3) Not in Newlib; Referenced in RTEMS but hidden behind #ifdef:
>>>>>>> a) pthread_cond_clockwait
>>>>>>> (rtems/6/lib/gcc/sparc-rtems6/10.2.1/include/c++/condition_variable)
>>>>>>> b) pthread_mutex_clocklock
>>>>>>> (rtems/6/lib/gcc/sparc-rtems6/10.2.1/include/c++/mutex)
>>>>>>> c) pthread_rwlock_clockrdlock
>>>>>>> (rtems/6/lib/gcc/sparc-rtems6/10.2.1/include/c++/shared_mutex)
>>>>>>> c) pthread_rwlock_clockwrlock
>>>>>>> (rtems/6/lib/gcc/sparc-rtems6/10.2.1/include/c++/shared_mutex)
>>>>>>> *It looks like some groundwork was done, but the methods are not yet supported.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The paths you point to are C++ files that would implement C++ features
>>>>>> using the available POSIX services. So they are users, not providers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All of the pthread services related to these are implemented in
>>>>>> cpukit/posix/src. I think you can configure a clock for all these now
>>>>>> to be used by detailed on wait and timedwait calls. My understanding
>>>>>> is that these would let you use a specific clock on a per blocking call
>>>>>> basis.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First question is which clocks are intended to be supported.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Second is the pattern of picking which timeout queue to go on when
>>>>>> now it is coded to let you pick one which is used for the life of the object.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 4) Misc (In Newlib source, not defined in libc.a, appear in RTEMS in
>>>>>>> various ways)
>>>>>>> a) getentropy (an alternate version is defined in RTEMS librtemsbsd.a,
>>>>>>> in src/rtems/bsps/shared/dev/getentropy/getentropy-cpucounter.c. The
>>>>>>> comments note that it is not cryptographically secure, so it may not
>>>>>>> fit the bill for the getentropy() mentioned in the Open Group
>>>>>>> document)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am far from a cryptography expert but this looks like a case where
>>>>>> this method would be considered supported with the disclaimer that
>>>>>> the quality of the entropy value depends on the BSP. If the user has
>>>>>> specific requirements, they will need to verify the implementation
>>>>>> used by the BSP by default is appropriate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> b) ppoll (appears in rtems/6/share/gdb/syscalls)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You need to be more careful with the grep. These again are in the
>>>>>> installed tools and in this case, they appear in an XML file. Referenced
>>>>>> but not implemented.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ppoll() will need to come from rtems-libbsd. The required system call
>>>>>> is included but disabled currently. AFAIK this means it is possible to
>>>>>> provide this but that would require a more detailed discussion in case
>>>>>> some underlying capability is missing. Chris Johns and Sebastian
>>>>>> Huber would be the ones to guide here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ruling: Likely possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> c) dladdr (appears in rtems/cpukit but not defined)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think this can be implemented in libdl but I am not sure if the
>>>>>> code from NetBSD from this would directly work or just be a guide.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 5) Others?
>>>>>>> It looks like there was work done on methods like sockatmark and
>>>>>>> pselect, but I don't see them supported as yet. Should those be added
>>>>>>> to the list or are they still being worked on?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These would come from rtems-libbsd.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think sockatmark.c is implemented in freebsd/lib/libc/net/sockatmark.c
>>>>>> but I don't know if the ioctl() is implemented. I expect it is but this would
>>>>>> at least require a test. It may just work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> pselect() looks to be missing and would have to be ported from FreeBSD.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As you suggested, I'll look into NetBSD for dladdr and do some digging
>>>>>>> on the implementation of the other outstanding methods. You mentioned
>>>>>>> that the "clock" ones have to be strictly added to rtems/cpukit, but
>>>>>>> the references I found above are all in lib/gcc/sparc-rtems6/10.2.1.
>>>>>>> Why is that the case and what is 10.2.1? Also, I'm not sure what to
>>>>>>> make of getentropy and ppoll based on what I found above...at your
>>>>>>> convenience could you please advise?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hopefully the above helped.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You don't have to restrict your possible set to these new additions.
>>>>>> There are others. I think Eshan has done the research for where to
>>>>>> get implementations of the missing long double methods for newlib.
>>>>>> And there are tickets for other missing methods or specific capabilities
>>>>>> in methods that are supported. Those are quite possible to have
>>>>>> some alternatives that are easier to approach.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --joel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you very much!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 6:38 PM Joel Sherrill <joel at rtems.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 2:28 AM Matthew Joyce <mfjoyce2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Gentlemen,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Awesome, thanks! I see how that works now...I'll give it a thorough
>>>>>>>>> look tomorrow and will update the spreadsheet accordingly. I'll pipe
>>>>>>>>> back up when I have a more accurate look of what's currently there.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Knowing what doesn't have to be done is the first step. (rtems, newlib, and libbsd)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd be prone to look for things that are easy to add first.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Some may not be implementable on RTEMS due to only supporting a
>>>>>>>> single process and no virtual memory. If you have doubts on whether it
>>>>>>>> is possible to support a specific method, speak up and let's try to decide.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Then find upstream places for an implementation where possible. I suspect
>>>>>>>> all the new "clock" methods will require discussion on an implementation
>>>>>>>> pattern but those must strictly be added to rtems/cpukit with tests and
>>>>>>>> documentation. At least I can throw you that much. :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks again and have a great Sunday!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 8:27 PM Joel Sherrill <joel at rtems.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 1:08 PM Gedare Bloom <gedare at rtems.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 11:16 AM Matthew Joyce <mfjoyce2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dr. Joel,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks very much...I'll keep working to get a sense of what goes
>>>>>>>>>>>> where! In the meantime, where can I look to get the ground truth of
>>>>>>>>>>>> which methods are "in RTEMS" as opposed to those in newlib?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There is only one ground truth:
>>>>>>>>>>> git://git.rtems.org/rtems.git
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And for newlib
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> git://sourceware.org/git/newlib-cygwin.git
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That said, searching for the function name symbols in compiled
>>>>>>>>>>> libraries is a good first step to rule out newlib. Then, you can
>>>>>>>>>>> 'grep' the RTEMS source code for the function names to see if they
>>>>>>>>>>> exist there.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> rtems/cpukit to be specitic. It won't be implemented anywhere else.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And clearly we both have forgotten that networking APIs are in the
>>>>>>>>>> rtems-libbsd repository.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://git.rtems.org/rtems-libbsd/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I suspect ppoll() might already be in there. Or at least supported by
>>>>>>>>>> FreeBSD.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You should clone everything and grep the sources. newlib already has
>>>>>>>>>> qsort_r. This is the nm I used:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> $ ~/rtems-work/tools/6/bin/sparc-rtems6-nm ~/rtems-work/tools/6/sparc-rtems6/lib/libc.a | grep qsort_r
>>>>>>>>>> lib_a-bsd_qsort_r.o:
>>>>>>>>>> 00000000 T __bsd_qsort_r
>>>>>>>>>> lib_a-qsort_r.o:
>>>>>>>>>> 00000000 T qsort_r
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Notice the last line has "T qsort_r" which says it is defined.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> grep -r in the newlib source shows it is in ./libc/search/qsort_r.c
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> dladdr() looks to be prototyped in RTEMS but hidden behind an ifdef like it
>>>>>>>>>> wasn't ported from NetBSD so that looks possible. It is in rtems.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Those two examples should help you figure out why you missed
>>>>>>>>>> finding some things that were implemented.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I need to figure out what this next POSIX version is to be called
>>>>>>>>>> so I can update the tracking spreadsheet that generates the RTEMS
>>>>>>>>>> POSIX Compliance Guide, :)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --joel
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks again!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 1:58 PM Joel Sherrill <joel at rtems.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Keep devel@ on the list. :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 7:51 AM Matthew Joyce <mfjoyce2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sir,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for the link! I see that you're right, those last four are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in newlib, plus memmem(). I updated those in the Google Sheet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now I see the newlib part, but where are you referring to specifically
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when you say RTEMS, as in "POSIX support comes from a mix of RTEMS and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> newlib"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> POSIX is a HUGE HUGE standard and references other standards. One
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it references and pulls in is the C99 Standard C Library which is libc and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> libm. RTEMS mostly does not implement this functionality and relies on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> another open source project for those APIs. Newlib is an open source
>>>>>>>>>>>>> C Library used by RTEMS, Cygwin, and most embedded systems GNU tools
>>>>>>>>>>>>> chains.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of the POSIX header files with RTEMS are actually in Newlib even
>>>>>>>>>>>>> if they originated with RTEMS. Many are shared with Cygwin.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So methods like the string, memory, and *printf come from Newlib since they
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are in C99. We provide POSIX like threading, signals, core file access, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> much more.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's a complementary relationship but it takes a bit to figure out when
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something should be in one or the other. The line gets blurred at times.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Say you added a new CPU architecture implementation of a math
>>>>>>>>>>>>> method (like Eshan did last year), then it goes in newlib. But he also
>>>>>>>>>>>>> added some POSIX methods which go in RTEMS. In either case,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> we like tests for them in RTEMS to show they work in our environment.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --joel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks again!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 1:13 PM Joel Sherrill <joel at rtems.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 19, 2021, 6:40 AM Joel Sherrill <joel at rtems.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 19, 2021, 5:48 AM Matthew Joyce <mfjoyce2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1reCNOIZC5JTwQENgl-hvG8THfQqNtlUDVy_07PYodic/edit?usp=sharing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As suggested by Dr. Sherril, I've taken an initial look through this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> document https://www.opengroup.org/austin/docs/austin_1110.pdf and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> added the new methods to a Googe Sheet, linked above.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> None of them appear to be in the RTEMS POSIX API Users Guide, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe that's not the right place to look. I'll stand by for your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feedback regarding what's possible / desirable to add to RTEMS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is possible they are in our C Library or Math Library. Or just not in the manual. The POSIX manual tends to be sparse since you can always use man pages or the POSIX standard.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since you have RTEMS and tools built. Find one of the libc.a and libm.a files in the tools install and librtemscpu.a in the RTEMS build or install. Then try a command something like this:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CPU-rtems6-nm LIBRARY | grep SYMBOL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you see it list with T then it is in the text section and there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Following up, I initially answered from my phone and didn't look at source. I am still on my phone but looked through the list and think the last four methods are probably the only ones currently supported.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://sourceware.org/git/?p=newlib-cygwin.git;a=tree;f=newlib/libc/string;h=ceeec602cdd0e6b5c6b002b741bda9b41da4e441;hb=HEAD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> POSIX support comes from a mix of RTEMS and newlib. That's key to this type of project.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --joel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks very much for your time!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> devel mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> devel at rtems.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.rtems.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
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