#4328: New APIs added to POSIX Standard (2021)

[Joel Sherrill]

On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 7:14 AM Matthew Joyce <mfjoyce2004 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Dr. Joel,
>
> Thanks very much, that's a big help!  Correct, I've been updating the
> spreadsheet as I go along. Ok, now I see that strlcat/strlcpy are used
> in rtems/cpukit and implemented in Newlib.
>
> One additional question, please: I haven't yet looked into the source
> of NetBSD or FreeBSD, but I do see that Newlib already implements
> ppoll (poll.cc), dladdr (dlfcn.cc), pselect (select.cc), and
> sockatmark (net.cc). None of them are defined in the rtems environment
> yet. Is there any reason why the NetBSD/FreeBSD version would be
> preferable to Newlib for these? Or is it just a matter of testing
> what's out there to find what works well in the rtems environment?
>

Without looking at the newlib git repo, I can tell you that the files
you cite are the implementation of those methods for Cygwin. Just
because they are in C++. :)

The parts of the newlib repo RTEMS uses are under the newlib/
subdirectory not the cygwin one. Within that, there is a libc/sys and
only libc/sys/rtems is used for RTEMS. The others are for different
operating systems. There are a few places with "machine" directory
structures. Only the ones for the architecture you are building for
is used.

As to why NetBSD for libdl, that is because portions of the code
originated there.

And rtems-libbsd is based on FreeBSD. It is as close to the FreeBSD
source as we can keep it.


>
> In my proposal I'll take your advice and work on some of the easier
> ones first in order to get the experience and process down.
>

There are tickets for a lot of methods. The rtems-docs repo has the
csv file (e.g. spreadsheet) which tracks RTEMS support against
various standards. The RTEMS POSIX Compliance Guide is generated
from that csv file. Between those, you can find other methods to ask
about. In general, if it is required by the Software Communications
Architecture (SCA) or FACE Technical Standard, then it is a method
someone expected to possibly be used in an embedded system.
SCA is a set of POSIX profiles focused on software defined radios and
the FACE Technical Standard was developed with avionics in mind.

But any are fair game if they are actually implementable. I don;t think
the Compliance Guide says it yet, but we decided last year that
wordexp() is likely not supportable on RTEMS. The newlib
implementation assumes the presence of a shell with wildcard expansion
and ability to fork a process.

--joel


>
> Thank you again for your time!
>
> Matt
>
> On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 5:03 PM Joel Sherrill <joel at rtems.org> wrote:
> >
> > Wow! Good work. There is a lot to digest here. Comments interspersed.
> >
> > I assume the spreadsheet is updated.
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 7:38 AM Matthew Joyce <mfjoyce2004 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Dr. Joel,
> >>
> >> I've gone over the list a few times now and see a few categories
> shaping up:
> >>
> >> 1) Already done (In Newlib source, defined in libc.a):
> >> a) reallocarray
> >> b) qsort_r
> >> c) memmem
> >> d) strlcat / strlcpy
> >> d) wcslcat / wcslcpy
> >> *Out of this group, strlcat and strlcpy also show up in
> >> src/rtems/cpukit. Why is that?
> >
> >
> > The good news is that we support these. :)
> >
> > It looks to me that strlcat and strlcpy are used in cpukit but not
> implemented
> > there. Where do you think they are implemented.
> >
> > This is a good example where a source code browser is helpful. grep can
> > often answer the question but a source code browser can be easier.
> Personally,
> > I use cscope but that is exceedingly old school. Any modern IDE should be
> > helpful.
> >
> >>
> >> 2) Not done yet (Do not show up in Newlib source or RTEMS):
> >> a) getlocalename_l
> >> b) posix_getdents
> >> c) sem_clockwait
> >> d) sig2str / str2sig
> >>
> >> 3) Not in Newlib; Referenced in RTEMS but hidden behind #ifdef:
> >> a) pthread_cond_clockwait
> >> (rtems/6/lib/gcc/sparc-rtems6/10.2.1/include/c++/condition_variable)
> >> b) pthread_mutex_clocklock
> >> (rtems/6/lib/gcc/sparc-rtems6/10.2.1/include/c++/mutex)
> >> c) pthread_rwlock_clockrdlock
> >> (rtems/6/lib/gcc/sparc-rtems6/10.2.1/include/c++/shared_mutex)
> >> c) pthread_rwlock_clockwrlock
> >> (rtems/6/lib/gcc/sparc-rtems6/10.2.1/include/c++/shared_mutex)
> >> *It looks like some groundwork was done, but the methods are not yet
> supported.
> >
> >
> > The paths you point to are C++ files that would implement C++ features
> > using the available POSIX services. So they are users, not providers.
> >
> > All of the pthread services related to these are implemented in
> > cpukit/posix/src. I think you can configure a clock for all these now
> > to be used by detailed on wait and timedwait calls. My understanding
> > is that these would let you use a specific clock on a per blocking call
> > basis.
> >
> > First question is which clocks are intended to be supported.
> >
> > Second is the pattern of picking which timeout queue to go on when
> > now it is coded to let you pick one which is used for the life of the
> object.
> >
> >>
> >> 4) Misc (In Newlib source, not defined in libc.a, appear in RTEMS in
> >> various ways)
> >> a) getentropy (an alternate version is defined in RTEMS librtemsbsd.a,
> >> in src/rtems/bsps/shared/dev/getentropy/getentropy-cpucounter.c. The
> >> comments note that it is not cryptographically secure, so it may not
> >> fit the bill for the getentropy() mentioned in the Open Group
> >> document)
> >
> >
> > I am far from a cryptography expert but this looks like a case where
> > this method would be considered supported with the disclaimer that
> > the quality of the entropy value depends on the BSP. If the user has
> > specific requirements, they will need to verify the implementation
> > used by the BSP by default is appropriate.
> >
> >>
> >> b) ppoll (appears in rtems/6/share/gdb/syscalls)
> >
> >
> > You need to be more careful with the grep. These again are in the
> > installed tools and in this case, they appear in an XML file. Referenced
> > but not implemented.
> >
> > ppoll() will need to come from rtems-libbsd. The required system call
> > is included but disabled currently. AFAIK this means it is possible to
> > provide this but that would require a more detailed discussion in case
> > some underlying capability is missing. Chris Johns and Sebastian
> > Huber would be the ones to guide here.
> >
> > Ruling: Likely possible.
> >
> >>
> >> c) dladdr (appears in rtems/cpukit but not defined)
> >
> >
> > I think this can be implemented in libdl but I am not sure if the
> > code from NetBSD from this would directly work or just be a guide.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> 5) Others?
> >> It looks like there was work done on methods like sockatmark and
> >> pselect, but I don't see them supported as yet. Should those be added
> >> to the list or are they still being worked on?
> >
> >
> > These would come from rtems-libbsd.
> >
> > I think sockatmark.c is implemented in freebsd/lib/libc/net/sockatmark.c
> > but I don't know if the ioctl() is implemented. I expect it is but this
> would
> > at least require a test. It may just work.
> >
> > pselect() looks to be missing and would have to be ported from FreeBSD.
> >
> >>
> >> As you suggested, I'll look into NetBSD for dladdr and do some digging
> >> on the implementation of the other outstanding methods. You mentioned
> >> that the "clock" ones have to be strictly added to rtems/cpukit, but
> >> the references I found above are all in lib/gcc/sparc-rtems6/10.2.1.
> >> Why is that the case and what is 10.2.1? Also, I'm not sure what to
> >> make of getentropy and ppoll based on what I found above...at your
> >> convenience could you please advise?
> >
> >
> > Hopefully the above helped.
> >
> > You don't have to restrict your possible set to these new additions.
> > There are others. I think Eshan has done the research for where to
> > get implementations of the missing long double methods for newlib.
> > And there are tickets for other missing methods or specific capabilities
> > in methods that are supported. Those are quite possible to have
> > some alternatives that are easier to approach.
> >
> > --joel
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Thank you very much!
> >>
> >> Matt
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 6:38 PM Joel Sherrill <joel at rtems.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 2:28 AM Matthew Joyce <mfjoyce2004 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Gentlemen,
> >> >>
> >> >> Awesome, thanks!  I see how that works now...I'll give it a thorough
> >> >> look tomorrow and will update the spreadsheet accordingly. I'll pipe
> >> >> back up when I have a more accurate look of what's currently there.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Knowing what doesn't have to be done is the first step. (rtems,
> newlib, and libbsd)
> >> >
> >> > I'd be prone to look for things that are easy to add first.
> >> >
> >> > Some may not be implementable on RTEMS due to only supporting a
> >> > single process and no virtual memory. If you have doubts on whether it
> >> > is possible to support a specific method, speak up and let's try to
> decide.
> >> >
> >> > Then find upstream places for an implementation where possible. I
> suspect
> >> > all the new "clock" methods will require discussion on an
> implementation
> >> > pattern but those must strictly be added to rtems/cpukit with tests
> and
> >> > documentation. At least I can throw you that much. :)
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks again and have a great Sunday!
> >> >>
> >> >> Matt
> >> >>
> >> >> On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 8:27 PM Joel Sherrill <joel at rtems.org>
> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 1:08 PM Gedare Bloom <gedare at rtems.org>
> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 11:16 AM Matthew Joyce <
> mfjoyce2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Dr. Joel,
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Thanks very much...I'll keep working to get a sense of what goes
> >> >> >> > where! In the meantime, where can I look to get the ground
> truth of
> >> >> >> > which methods are "in RTEMS" as opposed to those in newlib?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> There is only one ground truth:
> >> >> >> git://git.rtems.org/rtems.git
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> And for newlib
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> git://sourceware.org/git/newlib-cygwin.git
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> That said, searching for the function name symbols in compiled
> >> >> >> libraries is a good first step to rule out newlib. Then, you can
> >> >> >> 'grep' the RTEMS source code for the function names to see if they
> >> >> >> exist there.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > rtems/cpukit to be specitic. It won't be implemented anywhere else.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > And clearly we both have forgotten that networking APIs are in the
> >> >> > rtems-libbsd repository.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > https://git.rtems.org/rtems-libbsd/
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I suspect ppoll() might already be in there. Or at least supported
> by
> >> >> > FreeBSD.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > You should clone everything and grep the sources. newlib already
> has
> >> >> > qsort_r. This is the nm I used:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > $ ~/rtems-work/tools/6/bin/sparc-rtems6-nm
> ~/rtems-work/tools/6/sparc-rtems6/lib/libc.a | grep qsort_r
> >> >> > lib_a-bsd_qsort_r.o:
> >> >> > 00000000 T __bsd_qsort_r
> >> >> > lib_a-qsort_r.o:
> >> >> > 00000000 T qsort_r
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Notice the last line has "T qsort_r" which says it is defined.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > grep -r in the newlib source shows it is in ./libc/search/qsort_r.c
> >> >> >
> >> >> > dladdr() looks to be prototyped in RTEMS but hidden behind an
> ifdef like it
> >> >> > wasn't ported from NetBSD so that looks possible. It is in rtems.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Those two examples should help you figure out why you missed
> >> >> > finding some things that were implemented.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I need to figure out what this next POSIX version is to be called
> >> >> > so I can update the tracking spreadsheet that generates the RTEMS
> >> >> > POSIX Compliance Guide, :)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --joel
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > Thanks again!
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Matt
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 1:58 PM Joel Sherrill <joel at rtems.org>
> wrote:
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > Keep devel@ on the list. :)
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 7:51 AM Matthew Joyce <
> mfjoyce2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> > >>
> >> >> >> > >> Sir,
> >> >> >> > >>
> >> >> >> > >> Thank you for the link! I see that you're right, those last
> four are
> >> >> >> > >> in newlib, plus memmem(). I updated those in the Google
> Sheet.
> >> >> >> > >>
> >> >> >> > >> Now I see the newlib part, but where are you referring to
> specifically
> >> >> >> > >> when you say RTEMS, as in "POSIX support comes from a mix of
> RTEMS and
> >> >> >> > >> newlib"?
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > POSIX is a HUGE HUGE standard and references other standards.
> One
> >> >> >> > > it references and pulls in is the C99 Standard C Library
> which is libc and
> >> >> >> > > libm. RTEMS mostly does not implement this functionality and
> relies on
> >> >> >> > > another open source project for those APIs. Newlib is an open
> source
> >> >> >> > > C Library used by RTEMS, Cygwin, and most embedded systems
> GNU tools
> >> >> >> > > chains.
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > Most of the POSIX header files with RTEMS are actually in
> Newlib even
> >> >> >> > > if they originated with RTEMS. Many are shared with Cygwin.
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > So methods like the string, memory, and *printf come from
> Newlib since they
> >> >> >> > > are in C99. We provide POSIX like threading, signals, core
> file access, and
> >> >> >> > > much more.
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > It's a complementary relationship but it takes a bit to
> figure out when
> >> >> >> > > something should be in one or the other. The line gets
> blurred at times.
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > Say you added a new CPU architecture implementation of a math
> >> >> >> > > method (like Eshan did last year), then it goes in newlib.
> But he also
> >> >> >> > > added some POSIX methods which go in RTEMS. In either case,
> >> >> >> > > we like tests for them in RTEMS to show they work in our
> environment.
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > --joel
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > >>
> >> >> >> > >> Thanks again!
> >> >> >> > >>
> >> >> >> > >> Matt
> >> >> >> > >>
> >> >> >> > >> On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 1:13 PM Joel Sherrill <
> joel at rtems.org> wrote:
> >> >> >> > >> >
> >> >> >> > >> >
> >> >> >> > >> >
> >> >> >> > >> > On Fri, Mar 19, 2021, 6:40 AM Joel Sherrill <
> joel at rtems.org> wrote:
> >> >> >> > >> >>
> >> >> >> > >> >>
> >> >> >> > >> >>
> >> >> >> > >> >> On Fri, Mar 19, 2021, 5:48 AM Matthew Joyce <
> mfjoyce2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> > >> >>>
> >> >> >> > >> >>>
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1reCNOIZC5JTwQENgl-hvG8THfQqNtlUDVy_07PYodic/edit?usp=sharing
> >> >> >> > >> >>>
> >> >> >> > >> >>> Hello,
> >> >> >> > >> >>>
> >> >> >> > >> >>> As suggested by Dr. Sherril, I've taken an initial look
> through this
> >> >> >> > >> >>> document
> https://www.opengroup.org/austin/docs/austin_1110.pdf and
> >> >> >> > >> >>> added the new methods  to a Googe Sheet, linked above.
> >> >> >> > >> >>>
> >> >> >> > >> >>> None of them appear to be in the RTEMS POSIX API Users
> Guide, but
> >> >> >> > >> >>> maybe that's not the right place to look. I'll stand by
> for your
> >> >> >> > >> >>> feedback regarding what's possible / desirable to add to
> RTEMS.
> >> >> >> > >> >>
> >> >> >> > >> >>
> >> >> >> > >> >> It is possible they are in our C Library or Math
> Library.  Or just not in the manual. The POSIX manual tends to be sparse
> since you can always use man pages or the POSIX standard.
> >> >> >> > >> >>
> >> >> >> > >> >> Since you have RTEMS and tools built. Find one of the
> libc.a and libm.a files in the tools install and librtemscpu.a in the RTEMS
> build or install. Then try a command something like this:
> >> >> >> > >> >>
> >> >> >> > >> >> CPU-rtems6-nm LIBRARY | grep SYMBOL
> >> >> >> > >> >>
> >> >> >> > >> >> If you see it list with T then it is in the text section
> and there.
> >> >> >> > >> >
> >> >> >> > >> >
> >> >> >> > >> > Following up, I initially answered from my phone and
> didn't look at source.  I am still on my phone but looked through the list
> and think the last four methods are probably the only ones currently
> supported.
> >> >> >> > >> >
> >> >> >> > >> >
> https://sourceware.org/git/?p=newlib-cygwin.git;a=tree;f=newlib/libc/string;h=ceeec602cdd0e6b5c6b002b741bda9b41da4e441;hb=HEAD
> >> >> >> > >> >
> >> >> >> > >> > POSIX support comes from a mix of RTEMS and newlib. That's
> key to this type of project.
> >> >> >> > >> >
> >> >> >> > >> > --joel
> >> >> >> > >> >>
> >> >> >> > >> >>
> >> >> >> > >> >>
> >> >> >> > >> >>>
> >> >> >> > >> >>> Thanks very much for your time!
> >> >> >> > >> >>>
> >> >> >> > >> >>> Sincerely,
> >> >> >> > >> >>>
> >> >> >> > >> >>> Matt
> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> > devel mailing list
> >> >> >> > devel at rtems.org
> >> >> >> > http://lists.rtems.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
>
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